Emotional Support Boyfriend??admin
Before you are quick to simply chuckle or dismiss this idea, I would strongly encourage you to click now and read the ENTIRE discussion currently taking place on our Q&A forum, that delves into the possible ramifications of a tenant’s request. The extended, yet serious discussion hits on several fair housing points that many landlords have not considered, but points which are well worth it to you, as a rental property owner, having a greater understanding.
For example, one of the landlords in the discussion brings up various points, including: if a tenant with a disability requests an accommodation based on that disability, that as a landlord, you will want to respond to the request. That is not implying or dictating how you respond, but that you have good understanding and reasons for your response and decisions. You never know if a request by a resident is legitimate or not. However, a review of this discussion can possibly open your understanding in a new way so that you may not be as quick to dismiss a resident’s request in the future.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 10:38 AM
Had a young lady move in with decent income and credit last month. Within days of her moving in, I noticed another car on the lot for several days and which I called in for a tow (permit parking only). Turns out it her boyfriend. I confront her reminding of the lease provisions prohibiting additional residents. Yesterday, I get this e-mail: >>>>>I am following up on the text message I had sent you. I would like to add an additional tenant to my lease, despite expressing disinterest a few weeks ago. To provide some background, this year has been a trialing year for me, personally. My uncle had been diagnosed with cancer and my close cousin had unexpectedly suffered from cardiac arrest and had passed away. Moving has been part of my plans before these events had occurred so despite being distraught with loss, I continued to move forward with the personal goals I set for myself. After moving was complete and I began settling into the apartment, I’ve found myself experiencing difficulty acclimating to the change. Although I have the companionship of my cat, I started feeling the strong sense of grief again. I have been seeking professional help throughout my hardships this year, but upon the move I had run out of sessions covered by insurance and ultimately had to abandon the help until next year. With all of this being said, I enjoy living at apartment #5 and would like to continue doing so, but feel it would benefit me mentally if I am able to live with someone. I understand there is an approval process that must be completed first. Can you provide the next steps in adding an additional tenant to my lease?<<< This sounds like an emotional support boyfriend (i.e. ESB rather than an ESA). She hasn’t been there a month yet and was planning to slip this guy in before I confronted her. I sent him an application and we’ll see how it goes. If he can’t be approved, I may have to ditch her as he’ll be around. I don’t like the bait and switch business here as she knew at the outset she was going to move him in and should have had him on the app. I suspect there’s a reason for that. I’ll know shortly. She’s m2m and so non renewal is on the table.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 10:57 AM
So, she is setting up a need for an emotional support accommodation. Of course, there is a process for that, requiring documentation and procedure, but you may have to accommodate her.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Plenty [MO]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 11:03 AM
Suppose it’s worth a shot to try and disqualify him, scratch that, I mean quality him.
Such a long text. More like a news report. Perhaps it’s best to offer her the Happy Clause. As she is now running your business and I agree with you, if the cat isn’t enough, the cat is not doing the cat’s job. She needs a bigger cat!
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by MC [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 11:06 AM
Nope. I would give Happy Clause. She already tried to move him in. It will be something else in another week.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 11:06 AM
Wow, she told you everything except when her last bowel movement was. ; )
Good catch! I doubt he’ll qualify, too. Hope it works out well for you.
Another turn-over so soon would be real a bummer.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 11:17 AM
Get rid of her. Anyone who plays the emotional/mental support nonsense has got to go. It’s better for America as a whole to not cave to this nonsense. Let them rent off Moshe.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 11:26 AM
Here you go – don’t miss the lines between the words, she wants to move forward – turn her to see the door. She has been diagnosed with -entitlement- tenant level-A, fill her prescription, before the symptoms worsen.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 11:33 AM
I get a lot of these encyclopedia people on facebook, absolutely everything in the world fell on them except the meteor showers last week, soon I may hear from the ingenious Polynesian who’s family treatied the island of Maui to the developers and forgot to keep a parcel for the offspring, that will be listed as the reason for moving..
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 11:37 AM
Moshe, I would be interested to see the what the law says about an emotional support human. I’m only aware of emotional support animals.
I’m agreeing with the others that you need to move her on out regardless of whether BF qualifies or not. 99.9% chance you’re right that this was the plan all along, and I don’t tolerate shenanigans. On the 1 in 1000 chance that wasn’t her plan, there’s still a load of drama getting ready to move in, so it’s time to nip that in the bud. Sorry for the bad news.
This is the rooming house, right? I guess one must expect to deal with these kinds of issues. I don’t know of many well-put-together persons who make it their goal to live in a single room with a bunch of strangers.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 11:42 AM
Sid, this is an apartment tenant. She’s appeared to be a decent tenant with decent income and credit. Could be front running for the guy. If I can’t approve, both gotta go.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 11:45 AM
>>>> Perhaps it’s best to offer her the Happy Clause. As she is now running your business and I agree with you, if the cat isn’t enough, the cat is not doing the cat’s job. She needs a bigger cat!<<<<
ROFL!! That will probably be next.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 12:27 PM
You haven’t done any screening on the BF, he may be identifying as a feline now, driving feline.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Ed [CA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 12:44 PM
I had a similar situation years ago and the boyfriend passed my intense screening (including 3 mos of bank statements and this was over 10 years ago). I increased the rent substantially (I think it was over $100/month increase) to make it worth my while for the added person and it worked out. Your mileage may vary.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 1:31 PM
Well, lets see, now. I haven’t really got time to look up actual law, but here’s brief internet search of some secondary sources.
It seems like you don’t really need to have ever heard of an emotional support boyfriend, but it seems like it qualifies.
We have Fair Housing Act. Its federal, covers most housing, protects anyone with disability, including mental disability (I expect emotional disability would qualify). prohibits a whole lot of activities concerning making housing unavailable (including simple phrase, “otherwise make housing unavailable”), also “evict a tenant or tenants guest”, “harass a tenant”, and “Retaliate against a person who has filed a fair housing complaint or assisted in a fair housing investigation”.
Its always interesting to see what the law says, but to an experienced landlord, this law has been around long enough to get a pretty good idea of what you can and cannot do.
Other laws that “might be interesting” could include Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act, and Americans with Disabilities Act in addition to state or local laws.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 1:55 PM
See, if Moshe was a real landlord instead of some bizarre blend of troll/government plant, he would realize that this kind on nonsense brings with it a certain hassle factor. An experienced landlord knows that hassle factors WILL AND DO t-rump laws on every level after a certain point. That point comes when tenants nonsense begins to affect your Zen like peace. I think G-Karl is there.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Jim in O C [CA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 1:58 PM
When situations start changing at the start of a tenancy, it usually doesn’t end well. The person who was gonna watch the dog backs out, the tenant wants to paint that newly painted room a color they like, They remember their payday is eight days after the rent was due every month or The heating or air conditioning runs an extra four minutes which is what it is designed to do and that’s now a problem.
Hang on to those other applications because you might need them.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 2:10 PM
“An experienced landlord knows that hassle factors WILL AND DO t-rump laws on every level after a certain point.” ????? Really? Just how experienced a landlord are you? Even T-rump is having trouble with federal court. What are you proposing as solution to GKARL’s exercise. Can he “nonrenewal” her or “ditch” her? What is federal court like> Just like small claims?
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 2:18 PM
Experienced enough to know that all your posts can simply be whittled down to “you must follow all laws, no matter what” and that’s simply not the case. I would say it would be better for GKarl to simply move this tenant onward since the beginning dynamic has changed in a way that will most likely negatively effect his business.
If he proceeds and screens, and denies, I’d say that he opens himself up for MORE housing discrimination than if he were just to say no and give notice. If her mental state degrades to where she needs an emotional support human, no experienced landlord is going to keep themselves in that situation. Also, who cares about the T-man’s fake indictments and witch hunts. Experienced common men with common sense can see right through that B S too.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 2:24 PM
I would relook at my move in orientation session. If someone goes bad on me, I look at my systems that I have in place and see if there is something more that I can add to make the process improved. I understand, the ESB statement.
I would recommend screening the new resident. That said, if there is one common thread that sinks the majority of my other wise good tenants, are the words……..I am getting a new room mate
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 2:41 PM
I prefer to get the boyfriend’s info on paper, while they’re still having hope that you’ll rubber-stamp it, rather than have him get snuck in and have no clue who it is. On the plus side, perhaps he’s a great guy and passes screening with flying colors and he leads to a happily-ever-after of stability and on-time payments. 😛 If he doesn’t, then the answer is, “I’m sorry, but his application cannot be approved at this time. If it’s important for you to be with him, it would be best for you to move into his place. Please give me your notice in writing.” The last time I went through that with someone, they preferred to stay put, and accepted the decline with good grace. As it turned out, they went ahead and moved the unauthorized roommate in anyways. (Short story: she was a former failed tenant of mine, and an automatic heck-no, but she was also a cousin, and their relationship smacked of an episode of Jerry Springer.) He ended up being a failed tenant himself. I only have myself to blame, because I ignored the red flags as a favor to someone else. I need to go practice saying “no” in the mirror.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 2:50 PM
” I would say it would be better for GKarl to simply move this tenant onward …”
How should he do that? Just serve a 30 day notice to terminate tenancy? What are you expecting might happen? Whats the process? What can happen?
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 2:53 PM
He’s stuck now Moshe. He sent the application, gotta ride it out at this point.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Jasper [OH]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 2:55 PM
Part of my screening always includes looking at their Facebook page. Likely you would have seen pictures of the boyfriend and possibly even know his name, depending on if she lists it under her relationship status. In my area it’s easy to do a quick public records search and know what I might be dealing with should a situation like this occur.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 3:30 PM
She’s already moved in. He’s stuck screening this guy since he sent him the application. There’s an art to landlording Moshe, I don’t think you have it.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 4:04 PM
I don’t understand what is the relevance of GKARL having sent an application. The tenant has asked for an accommodation based on disability.
Should GKARL grant the accommodation? How should he reply to her request?
There is a science to analyzing problems and explicating issues. This science is useful for landlords and other educated persons. I don’t think that you have it.
At the time of his initial post, I don’t think that GKARL understood the issues involved in the tenant’s request, any more that you do, even now. Its a serious issue, worthy of serious discussion. My advice would be for GKARL to do his due diligence in processing the request, and to grant the request if he can’t find a GOOD reason for denying it, much as he isn’t happy about it.
We need SERIOUS discussion of issues like this, but unfortunately, you don’t seem to have any talent for that.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 4:08 PM
Before we dissect your blather, read the red flags in GKarls original post and see if he should have found his outs asap vs sent the application. He backed himself into a corner. But you don’t understand the art of being a landlord, so I don’t expect you to understand how he got himself into this position.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Dave [MO]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 4:41 PM
Since you have sent an application, it’s either an approval or an eviction. Forget all the emotional b.s. she had dumped on you. She’s in violation of the current lease. If he meets your criteria and you want to accept him for apt. #5 that’s your business, if not you have his personal info to file for eviction and I would do it immediately and not waiver.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 4:45 PM
Does it matter how he got himself into this matter? Now that he is in it, what should he do?
I don’t think that sending him the application obligated him to approve the request for accommodation in any additional way. That request is made by the tenant, who is entitled to a response. How should he answer?
Do you have an “artful” way for him to answer? I suspect that you have neither any experience in the subject (as shown by your responses) nor the ability to address a serious problem in a logical and serious way. You’re on the same level as DJT, who also isn’t able to give serious answers to serious problems.
You’ve told GKARL to “get rid of her”. Was that really good advice? Is that advice liable to land him in trouble? Little trouble or big trouble? How big? What’s the process? You really haven’t thought your posting through, at all, only responding to a sense of being pushed, laws or no laws. But that’s why laws need and have penalties.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 4:49 PM
What’s the serious problem here? The fact that he’s gonna step with a deadbeat whack job or that you expect landlords to cater to the ESA crowd?
How he gets himself out of this at this point is by denying him somehow on his application. And if that doesn’t work, he may have to sign a new lease at an expense of increase and then move them out a few months just because.
Hopefully next time he doesn’t get himself into this situation. Somehow I don’t think DJT would be any worse than some liberal federal judge from California named Moshe.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 4:56 PM
Getting rid of her doesn’t mean grabbing her by the hair and tossing her into the street, but we can dream, right? It means to start working towards getting her out as gracefully as possible. The best way would be getting it to be her idea. That’s where the art comes in.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 5:47 PM
The serious problem here is that GKARL has a tenant who is requesting an accommodation to add her boyfriend to the lease based on disability. She has made the request, he needs to answer her request letter.
All the responses on this site say, not to do it, without even knowing anything about the boyfriend. If she has a disability, then landlord may be in violation of federal law if he fails to grant the accommodation without good reason.
GKARL has to respond to the request. So, what to say? Unfortunately, our site is no help. Perhaps no one has experience.
Simply turning down the boyfriend is probably not a good idea. Accepting his application and giving it all due consideration is probably a better idea. Then what?
If he looks good, then landlord may not have any good reason to refuse the accommodation.
If he has bad credit history or eviction for nonpayment, well he accepted HER ability to pay the rent without his contribution, so thats not a good reason.
If he has a minor or intermediate criminal record, well, if he has paid his debt to society then he is entitled to move in with her. After all, an accommodation means stuff like a waiver of policy. And finally, if she is disabled and he marries her, then GKARL won’t have any excuse not to grant the accommodation. And in today’s world of alternative relationships, it not really a good excuse anyway.
But the inability of our site to develop and understand the issue and to offer meaningful advise is undermined by the lack of ability to even understand the details and its framework. The fact that there is a legal framework involved wasn’t even considered.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Jasper [OH]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 6:05 PM
So if the tenant needs accommodation due to disability, would she then need to provide a letter from a local healthcare professional who has treated her?
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 6:45 PM
“Moshe, you’re assuming that she can force the landlord to change the contract.”
YES, and that’s because she has a lot of leverage.
She cant force the landlord to sign anything, but she can make a complaint that would put him in violation of law if he loses, including “out-of-pocket costs incurred while obtaining alternative housing and any additional costs associated with that housing. Non-economic damages for humiliation, mental anguish or other psychological injuries may also be levied. In cases tried before a HUD Administrative Law Judge, civil penalties of up to $16,000 for a first violation, increasing to $65,000 for third violations, may be imposed. In cases brought by the Justice Department, the civil penalties can be up to $150,000”. Plus, a judge can order the landlord to grant the accommodation.
She doesn’t HAVE TO FORCE the landlord to physically change any contract but if he doesn’t grant an accommodation when he should have, there can be serious penalties (including multiple counts), plus he will now be on a blacklist of previous disability violators.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 6:48 PM
That’s why you have to understand the art of landlording and get this psychopath out of your unit. Because if she’ll take you through that for being rejected, she’s got you by the B—LLS for the entire tenancy and you live with that pressure the whole time. Experienced landlords know this. Bye bye to this bozo.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2023 6:50 PM
Jasper, YES, she has procedure to follow, including documentation of disability, but it is not a high standard. She has other procedure to follow, but if she make a complaint it will be investigated FOR HER, including filing a lawsuit (on her behalf) if the investigator finds that the complaint is justified.
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Posted on: Aug 19, 2023 9:23 AM
Sob story and MIUFP “Moved in under false pretenses.”
Another vote for Happy Clause…I had one of these over the winter, “Ms. Excuses” who had a sob story for everything and wanted to make her own rules. Got rid of her (holdover 11 days into June)
Tenant Starting off Wrong (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Aug 19, 2023 12:38 PM
Well, MC, you certainly don’t think much of the boyfriend before we know anything about him.
Seems to me that, based on the only things we know about this couple is her letter. The letter is very well written, polite and very professional, the writer is well-educated and seems to have a very good understanding of the issues of ADA and her own case. Is she a university graduate, or at least a student? While we cannot be sure that she wrote the letter herself, or with advice, she now seems to have all the issues of her case under control. Is GKARL in similar control of his case? We don’t know. But it is possible that she (and maybe also her boyfriend) are smart, well-educated, high-class and dependable applicants, and both might make very good tenants.